Safe Sex (in MY porn!?)

[solarcat]

Because Twitter was not the ideal environment for this sort of discussion topic...

Safe Sex & Porn

Readers, what is YOUR take on the topic of safe-sex practices in porn? (Fic porn, filmed porn, whatever.) Does it turn you on/off? What about a distinct LACK of safe-sex practices in your porn? Do you sit there thinking, No condom?? >:( or UNF. I WILL BE IN MY BUNK!? Are certain unsafe-sex practices kinks and others total turn-offs? Is it sexy when Character A says "I forgot the condoms" and Character B says "Do it anyway", or do you cringe and hit the back button?

LET US TALK ABOUT WHAT TURNS US ON. FOR ~*SCIENCE*~! (Or, y'know, just because it's fun. XD )




For my part, I think this is a definite kink of mine. I love barebacking in fic, and even in filmed porn (although if I sit back and THINK about it, I will be concerned for the safety of the actors involved). Real-life is much dicier for me; but this isn't about RL, this is about POOOOORN so I will leave those concerns aside.

I won't hit the back button either way--the condom isn't a turn-off for me in 99% of cases; the fics clearly written by younger people who have just discovered that some people think poorly of unsafe-sex fics and thus spend waaaaay too long lovingly describing all the ways in which Character A and Character B are being safe pretty much take me out of the story, because I C WHUT UR DOING THAR, AUTHOR. The rest of the time, as a reader I don't think about it much, except when the use or lack of safe-sex is used in such a way that it really affects HOW the characters are having sex.

As a writer, though, I do end up spending time thinking about whether or not the characters would do/not do certain things, and balancing that against the story I want to tell and the experience I want to give my readers. Hence this post! \0/



(Please feel free to discuss/debate/talk about your differing opinions. I trust you guys to respect each other, and each other's kinks! <3 )

ETA: Hi there, metafandomers! You're more than welcome to throw your two cents in! Additionally, this post is mirrored on LJ here, if you are interested in the comments there, or prefer commenting on LJ. <3

Comments

[pocketmouse]

I think most performative porn (fic, vid, etc) is concentrating on a 'narrative,' however abbreviated that is, and therefore doesn't want to distract from that with the speedbump of pausing to establish safe sex practices. I think instead they largely letting the audience infer the SSC aspects of a relationship, unless it's specifically stated as otherwise.

As for when I'm writing, sometimes I'll mention it specifically if it's a plot-point (Torchwood RPG), but I usually only think about it with het couples. I tend to not even bother with slash relationships. But I think that's in part to do with my preexisting issues with writing porn; I don't want to add another layer that just makes it harder for me to write. It's usually in my head as I'm writing, but it doesn't always make it to paper.

[kate]

Interesting... I have different opinions in written and visual porn. Like you said above - I'd be concerned for the actors' safety, so if I was watching porn (which I never do, so it's not like it's really a data point), I'd be squicked if there wasn't safe sex.

In soft porn, or sex in non-porn films, I don't have this problem. (Weird, now that I think about it... I suppose because I'm *not* concerned for the actors, since it's generally not actually penetrative. Though there's a story about Sharon Stone and... someone... in... Basic Instinct? Filming a scene and she and the other actor decided to just go for it and have penatrative sex - and I was immediately squicked.)

In written porn, I have absolutely no opinions. I don't care if it's safe or not safe, if it's emphasized or not emphasized (it's not a hotbutton either way for me), as long as I'm not getting beaten over the head with it and it's not out of character. I don't feel like my written porn needs to teach a lesson to anyone, they're not real people, so no one is going to get hurt. I do think about it, and try to make sure the characters are doing whatever they'd do in character but outside of that? *shrug* It's all good.

[sansets]

I pretty much just wave my hands and assume that porn without any kind of protection is written in the same alternative reality that just about every rom-com not involving accidental pregnancy is set in. (I have yet to see a rom-com that has accidental STDs and I'm REALLY not sure I want to - the accidental pregnancy ones are bad enough.) And, like, I cut my narrative teeth on those rom-coms! Even though feminism has ruined a great deal of them for me, I still SERIOUSLY grok the genre and so I carry over a lot of that affection into my fic reading habits.

(Also, I suspect that my kink for messy sex influences this a LOT. I dearly love a good blood/semen/vaginal fluid filled sex scene that's played up for kink purposes and sometimes the switchover from using sexual protection to allowing the sex to become messy is just handled so poorly I'm jarred out of the fic and the sex scene just isn't as hot any more. /0\)

[delphinapterus]

If it's written I rarely get thrown out of the story if the character practices un/safe sex unless there's something specifically in the story that would make me wonder why the characters wouldn't practice safe sex. For example, if it's hooker!fic then I always wonder why the hooker!character doesn't appear to be practicing safe sex and/or why their romantic partner isn't practicing safe sex with them.

It throws me out more when the un/safe sex is written in a way that makes it feel like the author is trying to make their reader focus on that instead of letting it flow naturally with the story.

It does make me a little bit peeved if the characters are having safe sex then just go bare for oral sex or the "oh no condom? fuck it, I'll just do oral" exchanges especially. It's fiction so it won't make me back-button.

[oaktree]

People do that irl a lot though- don't bother with condoms for anything other than penetrative sex, I mean.

[delphinapterus]

I know but it just really bothers me in a story when the author has made the characters really harp on the idea of safe sex. I'm not sure I'm explaining this right but it feels jarring to have the characters being so focused on safe sex and what it means only to just shrug and go bare for oral. Like I said above, it's fiction so I don't back button automatically but it kind of bothers me to see it.

[eledhwenlin]

As with everything else in the world, if you warn for barebacking, you're always on the safe side.

That said, is all sex in the real word safe? No. The moral imperative seems to be to write safe sex except in firmly pre-defined situations (i.e. long established, exclusive relationships), but that is geared at educating people by being a proper model. Which, you know. I write porn. My morals aren't exactly that tight or restricted or whatever.

As a writer, though, I do end up spending time thinking about whether or not the characters would do/not do certain things, and balancing that against the story I want to tell and the experience I want to give my readers.

I'm fascinated by this sentence because I don't think about technicalities like "condom y/n?" before writing. In the middle of the scene, when the writing is flowing, I either write it in or perhaps it feels better to leave it out.

Summary: I own my kink, I don't care what other people think, and now please write that porn, yes? :D

[jamethiel]

Ok. In original fic, it throws me RIGHT OUT. Particularly in original kink fic. Likewise in porn--the setup is ALWAYS strangers, and that to me = USE PROTECTION OMG. Not SO vehement about blowjobs and not all about handjobs.

In fanfic, it's--the characters have almost always known each other a while and we know their backgrounds and it's ok! Like in orig fic, kif it's two characters who know each other really well and they're FINALLY getting it on, and they don't use protection? I'm fine with it.

[petra]

I found this via my network.

Whether I care about condoms or not depends a lot on the characters. Some of the people I write live in a universe far enough away from the one that resembles my reality that I assume they're fine without protection. The closer they are to something like modern reality, the more it bugs me if the topic isn't raised.

And then there are the special cases, like Life on Mars, where modern reality is a long way away but I believe that anyone who's detail-oriented, anal retentive, and came of age in the 1980s wouldn't go past first base without a condom.

[fizzyblogic]

If I'm reading fic that features a situation where I would expect a condom (PIV sex unless it's an established monogamous relationship and they're either trying for a baby or are using other methods of birth control; PIA sex unless it's an established monogamous relationship or a closed poly arrangement where everybody's been tested and is clean) and there isn't one, it immediately makes me worry about their sexual health. I am very detail-oriented, though for some reason I can handwave blowjobs (it's not as dangerous if you don't swallow!, says a little voice at the back of my head, and even if you do you just need to get tested but the characters probably know each other and are clean anyway!). I write condoms into fic the way I write lube in; it's there when it is called for, not lingered on but mentioned. If lube isn't mentioned in anal sex scenes I'm reading, I wince and am taken out of the fic while I mentally insert some lube, and it's similar with condoms. Though I tend toward m/m fic and OTPs, so once they're together I can assume they've been to clinics off-screen and agreed it's safe to go condomless.

...I grew up in the 80s, okay, safe sex is important to me. (Also I don't have the messy or bareback kinks, though I have enjoyed fic that had barebacking as a joyous, kink-type thing. Whee \o/)

[grav_ity]

I've accepted that fictional sex is about as safe as it gets, so honestly I don't care. I do appreciate authors that manage to work birth control in, but in my own (very small collection of) fics, I assume they just had the discussion beforehand and don't need to have it mid-tryst. Also, I typically forget at least one article of clothing per story, so if I can get them reasonably naked, I count it as a win.

[o_saya]

It totally depends on how the author sells it. Awkward hand-shuffles and people mumbling "So, uh, are you on birth control?" does not do it for foreplay for me. A character ripping a condom packet open with their teeth because they just can't fucking wait/take their hands off the other person, however, is really hot. Characters who have to restrain themselves from doing certain things because they don't have the paraphernalia can be really hot. A description of rolling on a condom could be monotonous, or intense and tender. I guess in the end it's like anything else – good as long as it's well-written.

On a side note, I don't think I have ever come across a dental dam in fanfiction. I know there's even an IRL perception that F/F safe sex isn't as "important", but am I just in the wrong fandoms or something? I think I've come across a latex glove maybe once.

Here via metafandom

[soukup]

Regarding your last paragraph: I'm guilty. For some reason I notice that I tend to be less nervous about unsafe f/f sex. I'm not sure why that is -- lower rates of HIV transmission, probably. Or the fact that most of the casual f/f sex I've had IRL has been of the "avoid oral with people I don't know well, wash hands VERY carefully" variety. So because I find that gloves and dental dams are so seldom used in real life (or at least in my life), it feels awkward and unrealistic to me to use them in fiction. Bad soukup is bad. *hangs head*

@ OP: Great question! I've often wondered how other people feel about this, so thanks for posting it.

As a reader unsafe sex is something that makes me wince a little, even in fiction. It doesn't usually ruin a scene for me outright, but I can't help finding it distracting -- certainly far more distracting than I would find it if the author had included a brief mention (even a clumsy one) of the characters grabbing a condom or washing their hands or whatever. The bigger the risk (of pregnancy, of STI transmission), the more I have trouble silencing the little voice in the back of my head that's saying YOU LITTLE IDIOT GO WASH YOUR HANDS BEFORE YOU PUT THEM IN THERE. I'm willing to handwave a lack of discussion if the circumstances of a scene allow for the possibility that the Talk has taken place offscreen, but it bugs me when I see otherwise responsible-seeming people who don't know each other doing stuff they can't possibly think is safe. (One of my friends writes this type of scene a lot, and for me it really takes away from her scenes and makes them less erotic.)

Of course, I find it just as distracting when characters suddenly start acting either more or less responsibly than they usually do, and typically when I write sex I let the people involved do whatever they find themselves doing naturally. For example, the only time I've written m/m sex, the two guys involved were extremely scrupulous about using condoms at all times. Later I realized that, duh, these were two gay men who had lived through the late eighties and nineties in New York; it would have been OOC for them to be careless.

[aris_tgd]

Re: Dental dams, I know this isn't kink_finders but I actually wrote one in Open Beta basically because I hadn't seen one before.

Also via metafandom

[bluefall]

In the DCU, there's a character who's canon HIV-positive, and I've seen a few dental dam fics with her. But yeah for the most part I think safe f/f sex is something people don't usually worry about for anything short of, well, canon HIV.

[oaktree]

I'm a big fan of willful suspension of belief, so as long as the author isn't too pointed about the characters using protection/not using it (i.e., it's not some sudden soapbox moment) I'm fine either way. I know what I'd do in real life isn't always the same as what I write or like seeing in fic, so.

[oaktree]

Oh also: here via metafandom.

Doc SMASH!

[mecurtin]

Here via metafandom.

The default presentation of sex in *all* filmed material (porn, rom-coms, TV, whatever) is no condom, no birth control, and no discussion. This makes me FURIOUS.

I might feel this way even if I hadn't spent a lot of the 80s working an AIDS hotline. As it happens, I saw people die of barebacking. And one reason IHO that they died was because of a general societal attitude that:

a) being responsible about sex even in basic ways is boring, icky, and a turn-off

b) Real Men don't say No

Any filmed porn with PiV or PiA barebacking AFAIC is a slow-motion snuff flick. This is how people die.

I hate it when slash fic writers have PiA barebacking without discussion. Hate, hate. I only give them a pass because they, too, are part of a culture that views any kind of sexual responsibility as a boring turn-off.

I hate it MUCH WORSE when het writers do not address contraception as well as disease. MUCH WORSE. Most such writers are women, and should know better that taking care of each other is attractive and sexy, not boring or a turn-off.

Re: Doc SMASH!

[jaaaarne]

You made me remember one story I've read maybe a decade ago... I think it was in The X-Files fandom, but I'm not sure. The author included an author note before the story itself where she said something along the lines of:

"This is fiction. The characters may go without using condoms and nothing bad will happen to them, for they are fictional and not real people. No matter what they do, they will be alright and well in the next story. However, real life doesn't work like this. Being careless can kill you. Please be careful and always practise safe sex."

It's not a quotation, of course, because it was long ago. I have never seen such author notes again since then. But I still have this respect for the author, whose name I don't even remember right now. :)

[melannen]

Here from metafandom!

And like the people above, I mostly want to see safe sex being mentioned if I think it's in character that the people involved would be worried about it. Which means that, most of the time, if it's not est-rel, I want either a mention of condoms being used, or an acknowledgement that the people involved are doing something risky, and justification for why they choose to take the risk. That doesn't always mean a soapbox moment; if a character's been established as the sort of person who would be unsafe, or in the context of a fic is in a headspace where they might be making bad decisions, that's enough for me. And it's established relationship, or within a kink community, or something like that, I'm willing to accept that safety has been accounted for even if it's never explicitly mentioned.

ETA: Also, if a fic does work in somebody having unsafe sex, nothing will win me over to you faster than the character having to deal with the consequences of doing that - even if it's just waiting for test results to come in, or having to confess to a long-term partner, or something.

Also, of course, healing factors/superheroes/nonhumans/people from the far future/people from the distant past, I am willing to handwave a lot - well, distant past I want to see het couples thinking about birth control.

Also if a writer can work in safe sex/protection and make it hot, that really does it for me. ^_^ But so does barebacking as a kink, especially as an expression of trust or commitment.

The one thing where bringing in a condom has sometimes thrown me out of a fic is when our slash couple are having their first time after an epic's worth of UST and H/C, and they're really careful about condom use - and yet they were bleeding all over each other last chapter and didn't blink. Dude, if you were holding the edges of his wound together with your bare hands yesterday, it is probably a little late to be worrying overmuch about sharing body fluids. (This means that really, most buddy-cop pairings, I am willing to mostly ignore condoms - I just sometimes wish somebody would write a bleeding-in-his-arms scene and mention blood-safety. You get that sometimes when a character is already known to be HIV positive, but that's the only time I've seen it.)

[bluefall]

Also, of course, healing factors/superheroes/nonhumans/people from the far future/people from the distant past, I am willing to handwave a lot

Honestly I'm pretty happy to see safe sex in fantasy universes too. I mean, in a world where people routinely come back from the dead and gods like to randomly meddle in the business of mortals, it doesn't seem wise to just bank on a minor DNA difference keeping Lois from getting pregnant with little Superman hybrids.

What I will generally handwave is same-sex couples with a longstanding established friendship, even if the relationship is new. If they both have good reason to think the other is clean or would mention it if they weren't that's enough for me.

[melannen]

I don't get thrown out of the story if there's no protection being used in those circumstances, but it certainly makes me happy when there is! How it usually works really is that the fantasy element is treated as the protection-- i.e. Superman knows that's he's infertile with Earth women, or Doctor McCoy mentions in passing that the Captain's had his shots. I like to see that actually get mentioned, but in large fandoms where it's become fanon (or where it's explicitly canon, like Highlander) I don't mind if it's not mentioned in every story.

TBH, I'm more likely to get thrown out of the story if Captain Kirk or Superman is casually using latex condoms. Because I suspect we'll have moved on by Captain Kirk's time. And I wouldn't assume latex can stand up to Supersemen, either. My absolute best case scenario is if the author gets creative and actually does world-building about what Superman or Kirk would be using.

(Actually in my current fandom there's a character who (canon) usually doesn't worry about safe sex due to healing factor and then as the result of a sex-pollen incident has to deal with the results of an unplanned pregnancy. On a world-ending-pissed-off-gods level. Which is fun.)

[jaaaarne]

And I wouldn't assume latex can stand up to Supersemen, either.

That could make a great story, IMO. :) Latex doesn't stand up to Supersemen and chaos ensures, with Clark needing to deal with the consequences. :)

[lady_ganesh]

The late, much-missed Minotaur did a story where Jimmy Olsen (correctly) deduced that since Supes' costume held up when he was shot at, etc., he might have some kind of personal force field that would keep a condom intact, even against Supersemen. It was pretty awesome.

[solarcat]

That remains one of my favorite fics to re-read! I keep trying to convince everyone to give it a shot, but the pairing seems to scare people off. :(

[lady_ganesh]

A closed mind is a terrible thing! It's fantastic.

[executrix]

I don't watch filmed porn, but I would certainly not enjoy watching something that even looked like real people were endangered.

In fics, I *always* write condoms for PIV, anal, or blow jobs (and sometimes dental dams for cunnilingus). Although in future fandoms sometimes I include special space!condoms that are dispensed as booklets of film that wraps to accommodate the applicable body part. I don't care if it's the future, there are still bacteria in there, people.

It really doesn't have to be a big deal, just somebody asking about birth control and making sure the condoms are within easy reach for deployment at the right moment. However, pretty much all my favorite characters are people who take precautions of all kinds, not just sexual ones.

I'm sorry, I know this is OT, but

[soukup]

who are those guys in your icon?

Re: I'm sorry, I know this is OT, but

[executrix]

Hi, solarcat! S(imon) and M(al) from Firefly. Aren't they lovely? (And there are actual shirtless scenes to screencap, you don't have to decapitate them and photoshop...).

[jaaaarne]

I don't care if it's the future, there are still bacteria in there, people.

So, you don't believe that people will conquer disease in the future? :)

As a child I loved reading SF in which the future!humanity has gotten rid of all the diseases completely. Sometimes it caused humans trouble. I remember once reading a SF story in which the disease-free humans encountered another race. And all the people who were establishing the first personal contact with the new race died afterwards, because their immune systems were weak and couldn't fight even simple bacteria.

[exhausted_pigeon]

I find that my kneejerk reaction is "Hang on! What about the? Isn't that a wee bit unhygenic?" so I prefer seeing safe sex in porn. It's a thing. :)

[wired]

Here via metafandom.

When I write stories about characters in the modern age, I write in protection. I try to make it pretty organic, but I don't have feckless sex with people, so my characters don't either. It kinda squicks me, and I spend the rest of the fic worrying about whether they have just let themselves in for months or years of regrets. And yes, I learned sex-ed in the 80's and 90's. SEX CAN KILL YOU.

I also think that there may be room to try to write protection as sexy, or to be educational, or to do something WITH it, instead of being a speedbump (not always, but you know). I wrote a West Wing fic that involved non-latex condoms, because I care about it for myself.

[amadi]

You have mentioned two of my favorite things, West Wing fic, and non-latex items! Where might I find this story?

[amadi]

Another metafandomer.

I'm not always jarred out of a story when there's no mention of safer sex practices, but I am always bothered, and wondering why, especially if there's not an indication that the characters are in a long-term relationship where it can be assumed that they've had the discussion and/or the "let's get tested together" moment. Conversely I get very very happy when a fic includes practices other than latex condoms for penile penetration sex.

On the other hand, one of the things I discussed with friends when we all fell headlong into All Trek All The Time is "are we including condoms in the sex in the 23th century?" By and large, we decided that we weren't. And we haven't. And I've also noted the absence in Star Wars fic. And somehow that doesn't bother me at all. Maybe because I hope to heck that by 2205 or whenever it won't be necessary anymore? Something like that.

[torachan]

My concerns about safe sex in fiction are not about educating or doing the right thing, but about the fact that it is a fact of life. If I am reading a story set in modern times, in the real world, then whether the characters practice safe sex or not, I need to believe that the characters would make whatever decision they do.

The reason I dislike lack of condoms the way it's written in so much fanfic is not that I'm all "oh no, characters are having unsafe sex!" or "oh no, people will read this and think it's okay to have unsafe sex!" but that it is written in a way that makes it feel like the story doesn't take place in the real world, but in magical porn land, where STDs don't even exist, and I'm just not interested in stories that take place in magical porn land.

With filmed or animated porn, unsafe sex is fine, because there is generally not a story (some pretends to have a story, but it's always very badly written and badly acted, and I much prefer amateur stuff that is just straight sex, no pretense of a story), so I don't find myself getting thrown out of it by the sudden detour into magical porn land.

[jaaaarne]

If I am reading a story set in modern times, in the real world, then whether the characters practice safe sex or not, I need to believe that the characters would make whatever decision they do.

Absolutely this. Characters may or may not practise safe sex, but the choice should be in character for them. If they make the uncharacteristic and/or inexplicable choices, then it's not really the matter of them having un/safe sex, but rather the matter of acting in a way that I as a reader can't believe.

Via Metafandom

[ten]

It all depends on the writing for me. A good writer can make hours of fumbling with condoms and finding the best lube sounds just as hot as ramming it home in desperate need in a back alley.
Apart from that, I don't have any preference one way or the other. I read porn purely for a quick get off, so I don't care much about realism or not. (In fact, I often enjoy being able to flee reality for a few moments.) All that really matters to me is that when it's fanfic, the characters have to be recognizable, so if a character has canonically proven to care about 'safe sex', they better do so in the fic as well.

[aris_tgd]

Here via metafandom. When I went through the last round of the kink meme, I think I basically handwaved either "They are in SPACE using SPACE CONDOMS which I do not have to write about" or long-term relationships where such things were assumed to be discussed--except one time when the characters were explicitly barebacking, and, um, other things were going on there. But I do like writing in protection when it's in character, and I like thinking about how the characters would feel about safer sex, basically for the reasons [Bad username or unknown identity: kanata"] mentioned above. For some people it's just out of character to not care; if the detail can be hot, so much the better.

via metafandom

[mullenkamp]

I actually have a pretty big problem with how this question is even being framed. Conflating written and visual porn within the context of safer sex practices is really, really fucked up and not cool. There's a huge difference between the two, namely that fictional people failing to protect their fictional junk in a fanfic never got real people killed. Whereas bareback porn totally threatens actual, real people, has in fact gotten people infected and killed, and is a huge problem in the gay community.

I'm not trying to harsh anyone's squee, really, I'm not. But fandom in general spends ages and ages (rightfully!) drawing boundaries and making distinctions between things like shota and actual child porn, because the former is fantasy that doesn't hurt people, but the latter most certainly does. And yes, IMO, this really is that fucking serious. To me it's sort of borderline offensive to mention it in the same breath as people's slash porn. This diary over at Pam's House Blend is some much needed context on this and I urge people to read it.

Re: via metafandom

[solarcat]

I've mostly not been replying to these comments, because I tend to just like hearing people's opinions and don't always have something to say, but I need to reply to this.

I in no way mean to conflate porn within my slash fandoms/fandom in general with real-life porn. They're obviously very different things. I simply wanted to open the question up so that people--well, mostly my friends, though I don't particularly mind having so many people end up here and give their opinions--could talk about safe-sex practices in the context of either, or both, if they wish.

I never meant to make a sweeping statement about anything. I was just working on some porn and wondered whether other people enjoyed reading barebacking fic or if it would make people go D= over the lack of condom. And since Twitter is a rather limited format when it comes to discussing a question like that, I moved it to my journal.

[lady_ganesh]

Here from metafandom and like many others, my answer is 'it depends on the characters and the fandom.' Are there ninjas who can knit people's bones together with ~jutsu?~ Does anyone ever seem to get as much as a cold? Or am I in something roughly analogous to the real world? Basically, if you can sell me on it being right for the characters and the story, I'll believe it, and I try to do the same thing in my own work. (Though I do remember watching Boogie Nights and wondering what the ultimate fate of many of those characters would be-- despite the fact they were all fictional, I worried.)

here via Metafandom

[were_lemur]

I'm in the "depends on the fandom and the characters" category, too.

James Bond (at least before the reboot, I haven't seen Quantum of Solace so I can't say) didn't seem to be worried about getting diseases or knocking his partners up. Of course, he did have to worry about his partners killing him, so I guess it all evens out. But having him be worried about a lack of condoms would seem kind of OOC to me.

OTOH if I actually get around to MacGyver porn (and I can't believe I just wrote that sentence) there will be condoms. Because I can't imagine Mac not using one. He's too responsible.

In less realistic fandoms, I can mentally handwave it. It's easy enough to imagine that lube in a Galaxy Far Far Away has protection against the transfer of intestinal bugs, or that there are birth control spells in the Potterverse.